Saturday, February 10, 2007

36 vaccines by age six in 2007 versus 10 by age 4 in 1983....

Want to raise a ruckus? Utter the words "Autism and Vaccines" in the same sentence at your pediatrician's office. Want to raise your blood pressure? Read EVIDENCE OF HARM by David Kirby.

OK, I'll let you think about this. Below is the recommended vaccination schedule for babies born in 2007 versus babies born in 1983. Each vaccine is tested individually for safety. The vaccines are not tested as a sum introduction to developing immune systems over a period of mere months. Too much water will screw up your system. You'd never take a Tylenol with a Motrin and an aspirin, although on their own, each pill works well.

How about too many vaccines? Autism rates are now at 1 in 150 from 1 in 10,000 a few decades ago. And don't forget peanut allergies, asthma, ADHD, severe mental illness like 5 year olds with bi-polar have risen dramatically too.

Is the sum of the whole more dangerous than the parts? I don't claim to know. I just know we have to ask. Even if the pediatrician turns white and passes out on his floor.

This is the vaccine name followed by the age (in months) by which it is recommended. Here's a link to CDC for 2007 vaccines - which now includes HPV, but that's not until age nine. You know, when your daughter starts having unsafe sex....

USA 2007: 36 vaccines before age 6

Influenza (prenatal)
Hep B (birth)
Hep B (1)
DTaP (2)
Hib (2)
IPV (2)
PCV (2)
Rotavirus (2)
Hep B (4)
DTaP (4)
Hib (4)
IPV (4)
PCV (4)
Rotavirus (4)
Hep B (6)
DTaP (6)
Hib (6)
IPV (6)
PCV (6)
Influenza (6)
Rotavirus (6)
Hib (12)
MMR (12)
Varicella (12)
PCV (12)
Hep A (12)
DTaP (15)
Hep A (18)
Influenza (18)
Influenza (30)
Influenza (42)
MMR (48)
DTaP (48)
IPV (48)
Influenza (54)
Influenza (66)

USA 1983: 10 vaccines by age 4

DTP (2)
OPV (2)
DTP (4)
OPV (4)
DTP (6)
MMR (15)
DTP (18)
OPV (18)
DTP (48)
OPV (48)


Milehimama said...

Not ALL Dr's are like that! I had one in Denver that did not vaccinate his own children. He presented info to parents and let them make their own decision.
My oldest is 8 yo., and dx with Bipolar. He's also the only one of my children who is completely vaccinated. I gave up when we lost our insurance, and my 2nd son was exposed to chicken pox, and the dr. told me that even though he had the chicken pox vaccine, he might still get the illness! What good was that?
I NEVER give my newborn the hep B vaccine and this has caused lots of friction in the maternity ward. But really, how at risk is a 24 hour old child from getting it?
In SC, I had to take a class and get a notarized document before my kids could be exempted from the school rules re: vaccines.
Mama Says

Kim Stagliano said...

Mil - welcome.You're right, there are docs who "get it." It's just that the onus is on the parent to do the homework and every article in Parenting, Parents, etc. says "Be a good parent! Protect your child!" and who doesn't want to do that? Keep up the good fight Mama Says. Hugs to your kids.

Laura said...

Mama - "What good was that?" Exactly! Chicken pox used to be a fairly harmless childhood disease. My siblings and I got it all at the same time in the 70s, and none of us had any problems other than a week of itchiness and a few random scars here and there, but now that they have the vaccine, the "wild" chicken pox is a thing of the past, and the version kids get now won't offer the lifelong immunity, and people end up getting shingles later in life, which is far more painful than chicken pox ever was! Not that I know from experience, just the things I've read about it!

I stopped my younger son's vaccines at 6 months, after reading up on the possible connection between vaccines and Autism (which older son has) and switched to a homeopath for the boys' pediatrician so we don't get hassled about vaccinating. The old pediatrician and his nurses would give the raised eyebrows and "don't you want to protect your child?" thing all the time! Yes, that's why I'm letting their immune systems do what they're supposed to, rather than continuing to screw them up with useless vaccines that just give a chronic case of the disease, which the body never fully fights off.

Stepping down from soapbox to finish my coffee....

Anissa said...

This scares the crap out of me. When I brought it up with son #1, the doctor just shrugged it off. "No evidence, blah, blah, blah."

My little one hasn't had shots since his 6 month visit because of illness (he was supposed to have a couple at 9). Now I'm terrified of what they'll want to give him at 12 months.

They just make you feel like you're a bad mama if you even hesitate. Yeah, I agree, polio's bad. But what's all the rest of it for?

Anonymous said...

After I started refusing vaccines, the nurse at my doctor's office said, "Your son is short about three years of vaccines." To which I answered, "Yes, but he's high on mercury!" That pretty much ended the conversation.

The Wandering Author said...

Kim, I don't know enough science to be sure either way. But I'd point out a few things. First, whether or not vaccines cause autism, even my vet recommends giving my cats as few vaccines as possible: too many, too quickly, can cause problems. So I think the smart thing is to limit vaccines to those there is a real need for.

Second, you mention each vaccine is tested individually. The same is true of food additives. None are tested in combination with all the others, or with vaccines. Medicines, environmental contaminants, none of the tests considers all possible interactions. Which, of course, makes it nearly impossible to figure out what is responsible for any particular result. For all we know, some conditions could be the result of a combination of two, three, or even more agents reacting together.

The Romans were sophisticated in many ways. They knew more than most people today believe they did. But, they never figured out the slow damage that the lead in their plumbing, cookware, and makeup did to their minds and health. That one toxin is believed to be one of the major causes of the decline and fall of their society. With so many compounds we don't fully understand mingling in our bodies, how do we expect to escape the same fate?

BTW, you've been tagged, if you care to participate.

Anonymous said...

I thought one of your autistic children is unvaccinated. What's up with that? Does not getting vaccinated cause autism?

onaminous said...


How many vaccines in the schedule then or now could cause autism, and what is the timing of those vaccines IF any vaccines could ever cause autism?

also, Kim, how many vaccines should a child get, optimally? I'd like a firm answer, please.

Kim Stagliano said...

I am asking if vaccine schedules are a contributing factor to the current epidemic of neurological illnesses including autism. I'm not asking if they are the one and only cause. Nor am I implying it's all about the mercury. My youngest had a traumatic inutero injury with birth related oxygen issues and inherited a mercury/toxin load from me. You know, the genetics part.

Quiz man: Read Dr. Stephanie Cave's book on vaccinations. She includes a schedule of shots that appears to be safer for children. It's a bit less aggressive than the AAP schedules. Some pediatricians will help tailor the schedule to your child's health needs.

Class dismissed?

Anonymous said...

...and inherited a mercury/toxin load from me. You know, the genetics part.

Sorry I don't know. How exactly does that work, and what does it have to do with autism? Does mercury cause autism?

AutDad1 said...

Yes, I'm also wondering about the evidence that points to a mercury/autism connection. What about the latest Calif. numbers? Shouldn't they be going down, then? What am I missing?

Milehimama said...

Just an FYI - I mentioned I had to take a class before I could get my kids exempted from the vaccinations required for school.
Finally, I got tired of the "propaganda" and just asked the nurse,
"If there is an outbreak of measles, can we just come get the shot then?"
She said yes, of course. (Like a small pox or anthrax vaccine, they would only give it if there was a need; they do this with adults and tetanus all the time).
So, if there is a whooping cough outbreak, at that point I may decide that the benefit is worth the risk. You can always get these shots later; get only one vaccine (it's not all or nothing, you know), or wait until they are older and their brain isn't developing so quickly. There's no need to get vaccinated for 36 different illnesses before you can even talk in sentences!
Mama Says

Kim Stagliano said...

Ah George Glass and company are paying me a call. I am honored. Flu has been added for pregnant women, ensuring 25 mcg in utero when the babe is still developing. And I am talking about the VOLUME of vaccines - I clearly stated I'm not discussing mercury in this post. Sheer volume of hits to the young immune system. C'est tout!

You guys are always welcome. I appreciate your manners and enjoy our chats. We have more in common because of our kids than meets the eye.

Anonymous said...

Bravo Kim!

I have 3 children. Two oldest are fully vaccinated (including flu). Flu shot while pregnant with number 2. Two oldest children both have autoimmune/developmental delays.

Third child was also exposed to the flu shot when I was pregnant, however, thankfully I stopped vaccinating him completely by age 4 months. He is by far the healthiest child. Never has to go to the doctor. The other 2 were in and out of the ped's office continually whether for vaccines or the never-ending sick baby visits following those vaccines :(
Never mind the 3 hospital stays with them for assorted medical reasons.

Anectdotal - yes. It tells me all that I need to know, though. Get me the results of the vaccinted vs. unvaccinated study and we can talk. I have lost all faith in the majority of our medical professionals when it comes to this issue.

To those of you who can't grasp the concept of why people would balk at vaccines, I say this:

"I'm trying to see things from your point of view but I can't stick my head that far up my ass."

Author unknown :)

Kim Stagliano said...

Hello! You are NOT George Glass! I shall call you Greg Simpson or, if you are female, Bebe Galini. Ok by you? ;)

Bebe said...

Hello! You are NOT George Glass!

LOL! Definitely NOT George Glass. Bebe works fine :)

peggy said...

Response to
Anissa said.....
This scares the crap out of me. When I brought it up with son #1, the doctor just shrugged it off. "No evidence, blah, blah, blah."

My little one hasn't had shots since his 6 month visit because of illness (he was supposed to have a couple at 9). Now I'm terrified of what they'll want to give him at 12 months.

They just make you feel like you're a bad mama if you even hesitate.


Yeah, I agree, polio's bad. But what's all the rest of it for?


Anonymous said...

To Anissa.... listen to Peggy!!! who's in charge.... YOU ARE. It's your kid!!! That means YOU make the decisions on the healthcare!!! Be impowered by having knowledge about why you have decided to not give or wait. Sometimes Saying "I am going to wait". Do not put up w/ dirty looks. Say something to the person/staff right there and then. You are in a position to make change for future parents who will come along and question the over vaccination of their children. And if you are always dreding going then only go when you need to or find a different provider. Well child visits are not a must, just think of the millions of kids in this country who do not have health ins. who do not go in every 2 months.Also if you recount the # Of vacs. it is closer to 44. DPT and MMR are 3 each. There is something to be said about natural immunity. It is so important for the body to learn how to fight sickness. I am a mom of four, the oldest damaged by overvaccination ( one size-fits-all medicine) and 3 w/ none. not even vit. k. I am also a RN and masters prepared Pediatric Nurse Practitoner which might surprise a few.I do not practice the over-vaccination of children.

Kim Stagliano said...

Nurse - I thought I was not vaccinating my third - but I forgot the vitamin K at birth. I had a sign in her Isolette NO HEP B! But neglected to say No Vitamin K! We know more about giving our kids Tylenol or Motrin than we do about what the hospital puts into a newborn. I'll bet new Moms read the Motrin dosage EVERY TIME they give it - the fetus, the 6 month old and the 75 year old get the same flu vaccine dosage.....

Anonymous said...

...And I am talking about the VOLUME of vaccines - I clearly stated I'm not discussing mercury in this post. Sheer volume of hits to the young immune system.

This is what you wrote in the comment that elicited my question,

"My youngest had a traumatic inutero injury with birth related oxygen issues and inherited a mercury/toxin load from me. You know, the genetics part."

Sounds like mercury to me. How is "the genetics part" related to the "sheer volume of hits to the young immune system".

What is an inherited mercury/toxin load?
What is the genetics part?

Michelle O'Neil said...

Kim this is a fantastic post and you are handling the comments with grace and class.

I'm glad you reccommended Stephanie Cave's book. I agree with the commenter who said we have to call our pediatricians and their staff on disrespectful behavior. Enough is enough.

Kim Stagliano said...

Well George. As you know, some people can smoke 2 packs a day and NEVER get lung cancer. Some people breathe second hand smoke and never stick a cig to their own lips and develop cancer. We're told lung cancer is genetic. Yet not ALL people who smoke get cancer. For some the smoke is a trigger, for others, it is not. Because their chromosomes are different.

Mommies with babies in their tumtums feed those babies with the foods they eat. Some mommies eat tuna for protein, some mommies need the dentist to fill small holes in their teeth with silvery stuff called "amalgam" that is 50% mercury while their babies are in their tumtums all snuggle growing and feeding from that long, squishy dangly thing called an um-bil-ick-all cord. Good night, George.

Anonymous said...

Ok, I get the cigarettes and lung cancer example. How is that pertinent to autism?

So you had tuna and some fillings. What's "the genetics" you mention that allowed a "toxin load" to be created in your child, and how was it confirmed for both of those different kinds of mercury?

You can skip the grace and class. Tell us what you really know.

Anonymous said...

To Kim- yes you are right. Most parents spend more time researching the purchase of a car than they do about vaccines.Blindly allowing SO MANY to be given in the first two years. Only to wonder why their child is always sick and ends up w/ asthma , eczema, chronic otitis (ear infection) or some other auto immune disease. Some sadly live to regret that. I truely beleive kids are over vaccinated and if kids had their blood titers checked after 2 dpt's for example I think that it could show they have enough antibodies. This by the way for those who want to vaccinate a little is a perfectly fine thing to demand by their provider. (But I have to say that babies are born with about 4 months of antibodies from mom and if you are breast feeding the antibodies last longer) Studies were never done to determine the # of vaccs needed to produce enough antibodies. The AAP and the CDC follow the direction of the drug companies on the # needed to get antibody coverage. That is why I term the "one size fits all"approach. No where else do you see this in medicine. Antibiotics are always dosed based on wgt. And yes when my 4th was born they were ready to give him at 5 pounds the same amount of vit.k and hep b as the 10.5 pounder in the next door. You do not need to be a genius to figure out there is a problem w/ that!!Hey does anyone want to talk about the subject of some vaccines growing in dishes of aborted fetal tissues?? PS- I'm the nurse

Kim Stagliano said...

Nurse - I agree. I've never claimed to be anti-vaccination. I do wonder about the one size fits all approach too. Especially in this world where EVERYTHING we have for babies is "antibacterials" and new moms post signs "wash hands before touching baby (my sister in law did that as if we'd wipe our asses then fondle baby Fantastic.) Our kids are TOO CLEAN. Our houses too antiseptic. Grandma was right = you gotta eat a peck of dirt.

Shari said...

What about the HPV vaccine for the pre-teen? What's up with that? I have a 12 year old daughter. I don't know if I want to do that.

Jennee said...

I'm 12 years old snd my mom is Shari. I don't think that dr.'s get what kids actually think. Same with their mothers, too. They just want something to line their pockets with.

Jane said...

hi kim, i've been reading your blog on and off and i really appreciate some things you've said, and this latest one (im not a believer in the thimerosal-autism connection and i know this is not what your post is about) was pretty interesting. and i didn't see this in my rss reader until today, grrrr.

my parents have vaccinated me almost according to what's on the cdc schedule, after having decided the pros and cons of each vaccine, and i dont have fond memories of going to the dr to get vaccinated, but it's not like i have a choice at 3 years old to figure out what's best for me, that's what my parents are supposed to be doing :)

and, being much older now i get annual flu shots and don't have fond memories of going to the dr every two weeks for multiple xolair injections, but that was my decision after researching and weighing the pros and cons - and my dr and my parents (one being a dr as well) accepted that. Simply put, lessening the chances of getting the flu and in particular, spending a bit of money on xolair and having to deal with my dislike of needles was nothing compared to sitting out on games of football or ultimate frisbee with friends or ER visits and hospital bills. And many vaccines work like that. I don't really like the number of vaccines children nowadays are recommended to get, but there's always a way to opt-out (although, it may be a bit of a hassle).

So, when it comes to the hpv vaccine, the idea is that hpv is one of the most common stds and if so many adverse effects stemming from contracting hpv can be avoided with something this simple, why not do it? 9 is a young age, but I can say with utmost confidence that many teens engage in sexual relations before they reach the age of consent or 18 (if the age of consent is lower) - and i can't be the only one who had classmates with babies (2 months old, 2 years old..) in high school.

Personally I believe that the HPV vaccine should have been recommended for older girls, but the "good" part about making this mandatory (realize that the link you included was the recommended schedule) is that the $360 cost of 3 shots will be significantly lessened because everyone understands one cannot force a family under the poverty line to cough up $360 per daughter to get this vaccine - insurance coverage out of the question for a family that poor. The groups least able to afford this are the ones that stand to benefit from it being mandatory most.

Many parents are opting out and fighting to get this non-mandatory, while others are just stuck in the middle not knowing what's going on and the rest are okay with it...and then there are parents who can't afford it on top of that.

Meanwhile, there's average middle class me, not yet 18 (sophomore in college, before you start asking about high school and sex) and already started on Gardasil with insurance coverage (well, to be honest I was prepared to pay full cost regardless of insurance coverage because unlike what shari's daughter is saying, dr's nationwide are refusing to stock gardasil because insurance payouts are ridiculously small), and already sexually active, and have been for a couple of years.

I understand that this vaccine's primary concern is that it seems to make sex seem okay to people my age and, that's got to be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. This vaccine just lets me know that if the condom ever breaks with a partner who has hpv, i'll lessen the chances of contracting hpv. If _something_ happens that should raise my chances of contracting hpv, then this vaccine might do something to lower that. and if i ever do, it'll again lower my risk for developing hpv-related cervical cancer. Nothing more. I'll still be using my nuvaring birth control, I'll still have that packet of Plan B in my desk drawer, I'll still be forcing all my partners, female (toys, obviously) or male to use condoms, I'll still get pap smears and get tested for stds, and I'll still be careful about who I choose to be with. This vaccine is just one more way for me to have safer sex, and that's it. It's a fact of life that people have sex (and, according to a recent study, overwhelming odds are that people are having premarital sex as well).

That's just my personal reasoning, of course, but the points I raise are still valid. :) My parents, as much as they oppose this vaccine based on their various beliefs, won't disagree or stop me.

KRStagliano said...

Morning, Jane. Thanks for sharing your opinions here. Do be careful with that flu vaccine - it still has 25 mcg of mercury, FDA says you'd have to weigh 550 pounds to assimilate that much. Jane, do you weigh 550 pounds? :) HPV right not is a sheer money making ploy by Merck. Of course teens have sex (I too was a teen and not a virgin on my wedding night.) I agree with protecting them. But if you really want to protect your girls, HAND OUT CONDOMS to protect against pregnancy, AIDS and STDs. You cna have a LOOOOTTTT of sex for $360 x 3 with condoms! Come back again.

anonimouse said...

Each vaccine is tested individually for safety. The vaccines are not tested as a sum introduction to developing immune systems over a period of mere months.

While your entire post is right out of the "I am really anti-vaccine but want to pretend I'm not anti-vaccine" playbook, this is the canard that so often makes me chuckle.

Whenever a child gets a vaccine as part of a clinical trial, they continue to get all of their other vaccines. Why? Because that is the accepted standard of care. Your post assumes that kids who are enrolled in the chickenpox vaccine clinical trial don't get any other vaccines, which is patently false.

So in reality, what we have been doing in clinical trials for vaccines (since, well, clinical trials for vaccines began) is to measure what adding this "next" vaccine would mean to a child. And guess what? We've managed to add these extra vaccines (which are probably significantly safer than ones developed 30 years ago, btw) to the schedule without any proof that they're causing these neurological issues you're implying.

And no, I'm not surprised that you oppose the HPV vaccine, because after all, it's a really, really bad idea to try to prevent cervical cancer, right and to immunize women BEFORE they engage in sexual activity? I bet you think the HepB vaccine is a bad idea, too, even though that's a disease not always transmitted through sexual contact or blood as the anti-vaxers claim.

But you forgot the monkey pus and fetus parts, Kim. And the aluminum and formaldehyde and all of the other scary microscopic things in vaccines.

Here's the doozy, though. Once you start quoting Dr. Cave as some kind of unbiased resource - keep in mind that she spent years trying to convince the world that mercury poisoning plays a role in autism before it was cool and trendy. And probably made more than a few bucks on kids in the process.

Anonymous said...

To Aonoymous, You sound so angry that others are not so thrilled about over-vaccinating their children. I will presume you must be either a brainwashed MD or a parent who is trying to justify why they have allowed their child to be over-vaccinated. Either way you seem ignorant to the fact that children are alot sicker these days and vaxccines ARE one of the reasons. Can you honestly beleive the research you read when it was paid for by the drug companies itself?! Wakeup and smell the money!!